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description: "Underdog Rising: Kevin Riedl’s Journey: Lessons Learned through Blockchain and Web3||Underdog Rising. Read transcript."
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Kevin in the Wild / Guest interview

# Kevin Riedl’s Journey: Lessons Learned through Blockchain and Web3||Underdog Rising

Hosted by [Wade Poezyn](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuYUGc19Al5dbOAY_qS82WQ)

Recorded in English 38:01

Recording published 04 Jul 2024

[Read transcript](#transcript)

![Original recording: Kevin Riedl’s Journey: Lessons Learned through Blockchain and Web3||Underdog Rising](/img/yt/-ZBDscfrF1g.jpg?v=be579a34bd7c)

Original show [Underdog Rising](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuYUGc19Al5dbOAY_qS82WQ) [Original recording](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g) [Wade Poezyn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/wadepoezyn/)

Transcript

Automated captions, formatted for reading. Names, words, and timestamps may be inaccurate. Speaker identities have not been assigned. Text stays in the recording’s original language. The recording is the authoritative source.

## Introduction

[Watch this part · 0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=0s)

[0:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1s) [Music] welcome to Underdog Rising with your host wait posan where we ignite your journey from humble beginnings to Greatness for inspiring Tales of top Executives and entrepreneurs welcome everybody to undul Rising today we have Kevin rle with us he's the managing partner at way effect Kevin thank you for being with us and we're excited to talk through this with you yeah thanks R for for the invite uh looking forward to your questions so

[0:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=29s) Kevin could you just give a little bit of background on yourself you know from where you started throughout College after college until this point where you are today sure sure I mean uh my my path

## From startup to burnout

[Watch this part · 0:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=39s)

[0:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=43s) was everything but linear to be honest um I I don't want to start too early but um I basically started at a very young age coding creating websites uh try to just pack tons of features on that website and at some point I I started looking into bleeding edge Technologies from quantum computers to Smart City iot to blockchain of course which I'm stuck with now and all sorts of other things and uh during that time I of course slipped into the startup

[1:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=78s) World which was kind of around uh my first second year at College um that was when I joined a blockchain startup which technically still exists and and uh at the same time stupid as I was I founded my own social Tech startup so I had two companies at the same time which is madness doesn't make sense and always fails and uh that went for two years and after that I basically I would even dare to say burned out um because I wasn't

[1:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=114s) able to Al I I killed the uh the startup let's put it that way Corona happened at the same time that's when everything closed down and I basically had for a full month no job nothing and uh that was the first time in my life I had nothing to do had no energy and I I couldn't even grasp my like get my remote control to watch a series like I lay in my bed and was like oh man remote control is really not sure so far away like one or two meters I my

[2:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=151s) my heart started pumping just because of that was I had like blood pressure of uh what was it like way too high for my for my age I think it was like 140 150 um Al the the upper one and yeah like just super unhealthy and had a lot of other side effects and one month later I started uh my first actual non unemployed as like a employed job position as software developer and then a few months later I started again building some some crazy

[3:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=190s) stuff and uh yeah then basically one year later um after quitting twice on the same job uh my boss tried to convince me to stay um I just couldn't handle I handle it anymore I quit had no uh cash flow or nothing like that I I just didn't want to do it anymore which is stupid and uh then I basically just had to make my way with freelancing and other stuff and that resulted in what I have today with HMC business I'd like to

## Recovery and purpose

[Watch this part · 3:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=227s)

[3:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=227s) ask you what did you do or how did you go from being on the couch not wanting to get up and grab the remote which is a few meters in front of you to getting back into working just to give you a clearer picture uh up until that point I that that was the most productive time of my life that the prior two years I was like working literally like not not uh exaggerating here like every every 3 minute like uh when I had a call and had

[4:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=261s) like five minutes spare I answered like two emils or did whatever like Bam Bam Bam from you know I I think every entrepreneur knows that face um but it was like over 2 years nonstop and a lot of things I went wrong all the time cuz I was super inexperienced and um then just imagine Corona like you don't have to work your startup dies bam full break from 120 uh Kil miles per hour to zero and you suddenly question everything like what did I do right

[5:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=303s) especially because I had a impact thought so I was like really impact driven at that time as well and then I suddenly had nothing like my purpose was gone and you know I just was so stressed um I even lost a little bit of hair which is crazy because I have way too much right so um it's it really was um that that was basically how it came to that and after a month I just had to start to work again CU I had a new job right so I

[5:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=338s) of course it it wasn't at that stage where I was like okay I have to go to work but I can't even show up right so it wasn't at that stage um so I was still able to if I have to show up somewhere uh I was showing up um but that was all I uh you know you know and and that basically got me back right because out of purpose or like an empty life is pushing through right like with Sport with with work with something to do that's I think always the solution um

[6:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=377s) you just need something that pushes you

## Work-life balance advice

[Watch this part · 6:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=379s)

[6:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=379s) yeah I agree a body in motion stays in motion right a body at rest stays at rest and I think that to that point that supports that but now that you've gone through that and you look back for listeners today like do you have any advice on how to balance time so that they don't fall into the situation that you perhaps fell into back then it's it's part of the usual entrepreneurs journey I think or anyone who wants to to do something special because in in

[6:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=410s) the end I love the saying from Jan Peterson not sure if you're familiar with him where he says like you need to figure out your what what you're capable of like how hard can you work right then once you figure out like how hard you can work then back down a little bit that's kind of um just don't overdo it I I really forced myself for two years um even though I knew my my limits I just disregarded them I just said it let's do it anyway I have to and that

[7:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=444s) made me of course like I had no resilience anymore because every tiny thing that was unexpected made me overwhelmed and that's you know you're just reacting to that's the worst position to be in just avoid that managing time is it's something important to learn you know like yes give it your all as you said like you're really striving to achieve your goals give it everything you have but also identify when there's those

[7:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=472s) times that you do maybe need to take a break and recharge otherwise you will have that burnout and then something else I wanted to dive into was you know you've done bodybuilding and calisthetics training throughout your life like has anything from those workouts helped you within business and do you mind explaining that a little bit

## Fitness and business

[Watch this part · 8:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=492s)

[8:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=492s) in general sport always helps right it uh gives you something to channel your negativity your pressure your all these things and it's also proven right from a from a health and a well-being perspective that it makes you more productive active even though when I do any kind of sport if you are active you still despite spending time on it get much more done on that day um because you're just more focused more driven more clear in your mind what matters

[8:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=526s) yeah I agree with you there right I think even though you're taking that whatever it might be 20 minutes to an hour to actually work out if you know longer for some people I think that um there is that extra sense of clarity I think the focus increases and you're able to spend more time in the flow of work to really get into what you're doing quicker than if you had sort of brain fog because you didn't take that time to work out so yeah that mindbody

[9:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=555s) connection there is really important and you know it doesn't have to be a lot this day and age people think oh I got to get be in the gym for you know over an hour but if you're just moving 20 minutes a day or you're making sure that you're taking walk like it it varies for different people so I think people have to also understand that do what you can way you can but it definitely does help with you know the trajectory and what

[9:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=579s) you're uh moving into so you know you spoke about channeling negativity right and that's within working out are there any other mental mindset tips that you might have for the listeners today to continue moving forward in whatever it might be that they're doing I I'm not

## Shifting mindsets

[Watch this part · 9:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=598s)

[9:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=598s) sure if I'm in the position to to give people tips or recommendation on on mindset because I I don't know if that's something that brought me to where I am today I'm not like crazy successful like some people are but I I would say Al there two it's two- sided right um for me for a long time all my goals were based on insecurity right uh because often times when you want to achieve something you want want to earn a certain number uh Al get to certain

[10:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=633s) number of valve you want to get a sixpack you want to to XYZ it's always because of some kind of pain insecurity whatever if you ask often enough right and once at some point in your life when you achieved couple of these goals whatever these are for you you lose that right you you're not driven by insecurity anymore that's something that I really struggled with in the last 3 years um because I'm a really simple guy I never was interested actually in

[11:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=664s) earning money uh like just at some point when that was my insecurity like okay why are these people earning more than me at some point it comes to trying to challenge yourself and just making yourself feel good and I discovered for myself and I like the the approach from Alex hosi here a little bit where he says hard work is the goal and it took me some some time to truly understand that but if you just work hard the productive days are the best days those

[11:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=698s) are the cool days where you feel like okay it was exhausting but it was the good way of exhausting right it was like yeah I want to have every day like that and you know that's the goal right you you want to have a cool life and everything else the outcome and that also like if you look at it all the super successful people say the person that loves walking walks further than the person that just you know wants to get there or something like that so

[12:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=729s) there are tons of people that say a very similar thing and it's it's in the end that stupid saying it's about the process which means working hard feeling good enjoying somewhat yourself I go there a lot of that happens all the time and I think that's the only or the best thing I the the thing that really helps me to keep that perspective getting to the end goal is great but then it also comes down to once you get there then what you've accomplished it

[12:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=758s) so now there's nothing more but if you really learn to enjoy working through that process whether it's good or it's bad or it's ugly and just going through it then I feel like that's when the true success will come through right because you're now not doing it for anything monetary even though at the beginning it might start out that way but then you're doing what you love to do and then everything else just falls into that

[13:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=783s) Snowball Effect right and it just keeps going and going and going because you actually have that passion to keep pushing through so I appreciate you um sharing that and then with you being in coding and web 3 what are some good ways for listeners who are interested in coding and getting into web 3 to break into the industry I mean of course it

## Breaking into tech

[Watch this part · 13:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=803s)

[13:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=804s) always depends on where you come from right have you had some other coding EXP experience before do you actually want to be a web redeveloper or want to go into product management like many people do so it's of course depends on the goal but let's say you you just want to get into web free development I think the Al I usually learn by doing right um that's just me I try to think of a crazy idea that creates some kind of tiny flame in

[13:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=833s) myself like motivation flame I say okay that's so crazy uh nobody has done that it's stupid bit right it doesn't make sense like uh a programming language that consists of zeros and ones which is completely reverse for every uh Tech person here then I just try to incrementally try to achieve that with the Technologies I need so in terms of blockchain like think of a crazy idea and just try to copy paste your way there Fork something uh you have to read

[14:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=867s) and study a lot of things and you know and at the same time you have your first probably really shitty but cool open source project so on that same point if we look at regular coding versus web 3 should somebody that's looking to get into web 3 do you recommend that they have experience doing regular like website coding before they dive into web 3 or could somebody just go into web 3 it's less about website coding but I'm

[14:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=897s) more about understand understanding General so-called rep two patterns before right because if you have never coded in your life to jump into rep free blockchain looks like the solution for everything that's wrong right blockchain is a n Niche technology you want to use it way it makes sense that's it so I I really think like unless you anyway your whole life only want to work for hardcore hardcore hardcore crypto companies that only focus on

[15:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=927s) decentralization like most even crypto companies don't then it really makes sense to understand some web web two patterns as well I think that's great because so often you need to know the past in order to redefine the future we have to know what has come before when you're trying to take something in a New Direction so for listeners today right do you mind describing a early professional experience that had a significant impact on your career

[15:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=956s) Direction I mean I I I have a

## Early experiences

[Watch this part · 15:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=957s)

[16:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=960s) unconventional a really unusual path on how I got into coding right nobody ever taught it to me I had no idea this these things exist uh at that time I just tried to do stuff right when I created my first website I I had this no code editor like Microsoft Word basically like you just write your text and at some point I accidentally clicked on a button and saw the HTML code and all stuff and I thought like what the is this deleted it and all my stuff was

[16:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=994s) gone and that's how I started right and also from there like my first programming language was Windows patch which is not really a programming language and I coded it without syntax highlighting in a pure plain text editor and I just tried to do stuff the moment I I switched from the Builder mindset I just want to build stuff to okay also maybe should make sense right it's not as fun anymore maybe but that of course from a pure career perspective changed a

[17:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1027s) lot of things for me because as mentioned I was never money focused which is bad for me um for for a very long time I just built stuff because it was cool or it was great for my CV or whatever you now at some point after my like my first two startups I didn't think about making money how stupid is that sorry like but yeah I think that realization or that learning of course made a big change that's a cool little experience and

[17:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1057s) story that you told there you know because each person has their own unique start and that was very interesting that you actually ended up you know identifying the source code and then ended up deleting it as well but you also in your history you have some selling experience right so sales and I know you mentioned that that's taught you some social skills as well do you feel that sales and having that experience has helped you in the

[18:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1084s) position that you are in today as being a managing partner the sales experience

## Sales and trust

[Watch this part · 18:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1088s)

[18:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1089s) I had before was just selling light bulbs at Ika right but still it's like that you know you're stepping out you're talking to people you're getting that social experience yes of course it it it helped on that front because I was very introverted but I would say what this helped me a lot was getting out of depression think that was the biggest thing because I had to deal with people and if you are in a depression you don't

[18:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1114s) want to deal with people but from a pure sales perspective of course like understanding that sales is about helping people making like actually giving them information to make the best decision for themselves that was a learning I had like very early on I never try never try to sell anyone ever I can never try to convince anyone I told them this one is like that this one is like that and even if I knew a competitor had something better I told

[19:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1146s) them because what does that do they trust you that means if they then need something which you have they will come to you and they will buy more and more often and you know that's brand and that's sales is a bridge of trust in the end so that's kind of that was the biggest learning from that time trust is

## Industry resources

[Watch this part · 19:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1165s)

[19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1166s) a very big thing you know people want to do do business with people they trust and that's where you can get longevity out of it so and then I kind of wanted to ask you a swing question at any given moment in time how many tabs do you have open on your computer screen while you're working I mean usually definitely like 40 50 but uh today just six because I reset my PC yesterday now all of those tend to be coding or do they tend to be

[19:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1194s) a variety of different things for Marketing sales like crms Twitter ads LinkedIn WhatsApp of course all of them no that's interesting and then for listeners today are there any book or resource recommendations that you can share so that they can do continuous learning or get more up to speed with the industry that you're in uh web free is a really fast-paced world right which means any book you read there is like right now probably 2 years

[20:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1225s) old so it's it's great to understand the past and to if some people are like longer in the industry that you can have a good conversation with them so for that it's it's very useful but if you want to understand today I don't think you should read a book it's actually uh as stupid as that sounds and I don't really like that myself but join Twitter spaces engageing communities do all that talk people in web free and you

[21:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1260s) will quickly see like how they think how they talk what they are hyped about you will hear tons of weird terms deep in whatever which is one of the current ones RW and whatever Google them understand them learn them and go from there kind of like just what you were mentioning right just do like you did just dive in learn it understand it and then you can go from there at least that's a starting point so if somebody this day and age is looking to break

[21:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1290s) into the industry right they're young professional are there certain things that they can do to better position themselves to get a job in the industry like should they be doing and creating stuff so that they have projects to support themselves when they're trying to get a job or should they intern like do you have any advice on that in the

## Getting hired in web3

[Watch this part · 21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1310s)

[21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1310s) repri space itself there's like most companies are usually like either not large enough to to have interns if they are of course you can intern you can try to intern but those are usually then companies that everyone wants to work for so it will be very difficult to to break into that um the most common path I see is for a lot of people try to build something become a Founder even if it doesn't work out try to apply for

[22:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1339s) grants that these things will teach you a lot if you can of course because you have to make money in some sense so I guess you will just have to have another job for a while um that that's a path I see with a lot of people but aside from that of course having open source projects but the easiest most likely is again really just engaging with people connecting with people I jump onto I think five to 10 calls a day uh with

[22:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1369s) random seemingly random people in the space in our case of course it's for client acquisition building relationships getting Affiliates and these kind of things but in your case it could be the same right getting your first job like if someone trusts you likes you knows that you're like motivated uh you might have a chance to get a let's say a tun wall and what are some of the better platforms for those individuals to be a part of to dive into

[23:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1397s) that Community to connect with people Twitter like there there are two two main main ones right uh Twitter is great for hardcore crypto people like if you really want to uh get in touch with ogs and all these people which will be much more difficult by the way because Twitter has a lot of scams and people are like more defensive as well in my opinion LinkedIn is also great it's a little bit more professional of course

[23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1426s) but you will find more established entrepreneurs there more established projects not other less of these hardcore dents how people say that just trade uh nfts and these kind of things um so these two are best to connect with people to in terms of communities Twitter again Telegram and Discord but it's difficult to connect there with people because there are even more scams and more people try to you know so nobody trusts you there thank you for

[24:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1457s) sharing that because I think people that are initially getting into it they don't know that you know but you letting them know that certain platforms are a little bit more scammy versus others it's just good to know so that they can at least be aware before jumping in just to go to the root cause of everything what ultimately got you into coding I mean

## Lessons from coding

[Watch this part · 24:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1476s)

[24:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1477s) the first thing I can remember was like a school friend who has shown me that he created a website and uh yeah I thought okay it's actually pretty cool to have something on the Internet you know um I'm just 27 right uh but it was still like at that time I still had my my flip phone and this I feel like super old but um it's you know it was was cool at that time so that got me in and just knowing that I can do cool stuff crazy

[25:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1513s) stuff and uh yeah like there was so much to learn and I just was fascinated like I want wanted to build stuff what age did you get in into that 13 yeah that's young that's yeah that's Tom interesting so do you think do you think you starting out younger and getting involved in that and doing your own self-exploration helped Propel you to where you are today versus say somebody that might start out 25 I mean time time is relative right one of thing I learned

[25:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1549s) is like even though I on paper I actually had like zero professional experience like zero years of experience which was really difficult when I applied for jobs for that one year for example um although I actually coded for already what was it I think for 10 years like all the time like nonstop in my free time so I think it depends like how intense you are if if someone uh at 25 codes like Madness or builds production

[26:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1584s) grade scalable software and has some kind of uh learns from others senior people I I never had that to be honest I I really the first 10 years of coding all I did was really just try and error like I think the first 50 projects I did I and never even watched a tutorial I think which is in some way maybe even stupid if I think about it but I really just had like okay I want to to have a countdown that in school counts down the

[27:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1625s) seconds when we have a break and my classmates loved me for that super stupid useless but I did that with Windows patch which is definitely a bad programming language for that I I just did these things and as mentioned I had Al I think the biggest impact for my skill definitely was like having no using no syntax highlighting no IDE which is both are standard and uh important I use them today of course but it forced me to really really really get

[27:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1659s) attention for detail like I see that with my colleagues which are super senior highly competent but when looking for bucks sounds stupid when I say it myself but I'm like definitely five to 10 times faster because back then in high school I searched uh for 2 hours because I missed a white space or semicolon or something like that and nowadays or with IDE it shows you that right so you don't develop that attention for detail um and of course

[28:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1691s) use these tools right it's stupid not to use them but that gave me a certain skill that I think that most people never had to develop yeah I think it

## Tools for productivity

[Watch this part · 28:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1700s)

[28:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1701s) gives you a different Edge CU to your point right you went through time of exploration right where they were there were no tools such as we have today which make things a lot easier whereas you did it you know nitty-gritty and you went and you spent the time to research you reviewed a lot of the the code and the content but I think it also brings about a point of resilience you know like when you when platforms nowadays

[28:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1728s) tend to give you everything you don't have time to truly identify where the issues may may lie but by having spent that time exploring I think your mind adapts into a different way so that if you face a problem you have different methodologies to attack and resolve that problem maybe versus other people right because they get put into a certain mindset to like okay this is the problem this is the solution this is the problem this is the

[29:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1763s) solution whereas in your story that you just told it's I'll figure it out no matter what it is I'll figure it out right and I think that's really cool that you have that element to just keep going and to take things to the next level just for for people that are in Tech uh the tools have been there actually but I just didn't know them like I didn't know about it because no one ever told me but um I I went to commercial school so I I

[29:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1794s) just had my text editor I at some point saw okay that's how how you create a Windows batch file or something like that that's how you execute it and from there I try to build stuff so it's actually stupid looking backwards um but forcing myself like without assistance other technical assistance um I just look Al had to fix bucks that are couple stacks deeper right that most developers don't need to to deal with which is great by should

[30:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1828s) you right we are not dealing today with uh zeros and ones and uh memory uh issues and these kind of things or much less so um it just makes sense to use these tools um so it's kind of just a consequence of my missing experience or not knowing that these tools thingss uh this these tools exist right of course it helps me but I wouldn't recommend that because why should you right uh now with ey tools should you not use them it

[31:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1860s) makes you makes you more productive what

## What drives success

[Watch this part · 31:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1862s)

[31:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1862s) are some apps plugins or software that you're currently using to optimize your life or make your life easier you know as a managing partner of a company I myself of course I don't code that much anymore but of course for developers GitHub co-pilot is a great tool um it just helps you accelerate your development doesn't mean that the code that it spits out is always great same for cat gbt if you use it for analyzing code which is great by the way for

[31:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1892s) example yesterday I I discovered a scam and uh put it in there and chat GPT unisc the code explained what it did and these kind of things so these are really really useful tools um of course static analyzers um which slier for example for smart contracts which gives you an automated list of potential security issues which is great because you don't have to figure it out yourself you know of course I lesser tool but unit testing integration tests

[32:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1929s) and tests like testing Frameworks for your code something I would really recommend because when you start out as a developer you often times it feels like why should I write tests right I'm just figuring out on the go it takes a lot of time but in the end if you write something big it always makes sense right I'm just thinking back a few years we have built a huge really a huge data analytics uh application and there were so many

[32:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1964s) border cases so many rules of how that data is being uh analyzed was financial data for Bond stocks uh and so on and so forth and there were often times the weirdest bugs and without having like many hundreds hundreds of automated tests we literally would need to throw away the whole project and build it from scratch yeah so those platforms are crucial to help your your day-to-day process so definitely leverage them instead of having to do all of that

[33:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=1998s) manual work so yeah I think that's great I I like that because there's so many there's so much technology this day and age right and sometimes people don't know where to start you mentioned that money is no longer a driver to do what you do so what does drive you to do what you do on a day-to-day basis of course you need money to survive right so um it's not my motivator what what drives me it's I just know that if I don't work

[33:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2029s) hard I feel like piece of right so it's it's really about about that like the best days are these days where I wake up at uh 5:00 p.m. or 4:30 even though to be honest I don't do that very often right so I'm not like that hyper uh disciplined like robot that does that all the time but if I do that work out at 6:00 a.m. are back at in the office at 8 and then do my stuff and at 1: p.m. my meeting start these are the cool days

[34:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2064s) right where I say okay I wish I could do that every day but um that that drives me like just having a great day and of course uh if you put a lot of effort into it you definitely want to in the long run doesn't need to be like instant gratification you just want to see like that effort is being you know has an outcome because otherwise why would you do anything so that's kind of but on the long Horizon so I just want to see that

[34:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2094s) I'm growing in some sense if that's financially mindset wise if I learn something that's the goal uh that's the outcome I want to have along the process but what about you you know I grew up in

## Final advice and wrap up

[Watch this part · 35:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2105s)

[35:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2106s) South Africa so being in the US now for almost 16 years um I think the main driving force for me is you know I've been blessed with the opportunity to have come to the country that I'm in where there's a lot of opportunity to you know make something of yourself and I don't want to not take advantage of that so I think that's what really drives me and in specific relation to this podcast I really just want to help the next generation of folks because so

[35:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2139s) often there's not enough resources out there for people to turn to right because there is so much information but I think to your point one way to learn is by doing and get gaining experience yourself but then the other option is to learn from those that have traveled before you so that you don't do the mistakes that they've done in the past right and learn from them so that you can get an advantage to move along maybe a little

[36:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2167s) bit more quicker but now that I'm older and I have a family I think that also in part is the motivator so overall I would say that the motivator fluctuates over time right so to your point maybe you were starting a company motivated you when you were younger right the exploration maybe motivated you at one point and then Financial at one point because you know that's how we all get into business but then you know maybe

[36:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2192s) the passion and the purpose then takes over as the motivator to keep going because we're helping others in the world you know and doing exploration and then I just wanted to ask as we round out like do you have any other final advice for listeners today that might want to get into the industry that you're in just try to some to do something cool try also help people that's it sounds stupid again like that basic saying but that's really the truth

[36:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2219s) and it's simple and sometimes we don't need to overthink it right and that's what I think a lot of people do they try to have these intense goals the um insane work ethic at times like I've got to manage I got to time block I got to do X Y and Z and it's sometimes it is very simple do something cool prove to yourself that you can do it you know and then that snowball will start to just get bigger and bigger and you'll just

[37:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZBDscfrF1g&t=2245s) end up achieving so much more in your life I really appreciate your time and sharing all of your knowledge and your stories with us so but thank you thanks again for the invite mate uh really appreciate it and yeah I hope it helps at least one person and anyway was great talking with you [Music] [Music] a

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      "transcript": "[Music] welcome to Underdog Rising with your host wait posan where we ignite your journey from humble beginnings to Greatness for inspiring Tales of top Executives and entrepreneurs welcome everybody to undul Rising today we have Kevin rle with us he's the managing partner at way effect Kevin thank you for being with us and we're excited to talk through this with you yeah thanks R for for the invite uh looking forward to your questions so\nKevin could you just give a little bit of background on yourself you know from where you started throughout College after college until this point where you are today sure sure I mean uh my my path\nwas everything but linear to be honest um I I don't want to start too early but um I basically started at a very young age coding creating websites uh try to just pack tons of features on that website and at some point I I started looking into bleeding edge Technologies from quantum computers to Smart City iot to blockchain of course which I'm stuck with now and all sorts of other things and uh during that time I of course slipped into the startup\nWorld which was kind of around uh my first second year at College um that was when I joined a blockchain startup which technically still exists and and uh at the same time stupid as I was I founded my own social Tech startup so I had two companies at the same time which is madness doesn't make sense and always fails and uh that went for two years and after that I basically I would even dare to say burned out um because I wasn't\nable to Al I I killed the uh the startup let's put it that way Corona happened at the same time that's when everything closed down and I basically had for a full month no job nothing and uh that was the first time in my life I had nothing to do had no energy and I I couldn't even grasp my like get my remote control to watch a series like I lay in my bed and was like oh man remote control is really not sure so far away like one or two meters I my\nmy heart started pumping just because of that was I had like blood pressure of uh what was it like way too high for my for my age I think it was like 140 150 um Al the the upper one and yeah like just super unhealthy and had a lot of other side effects and one month later I started uh my first actual non unemployed as like a employed job position as software developer and then a few months later I started again building some some crazy\nstuff and uh yeah then basically one year later um after quitting twice on the same job uh my boss tried to convince me to stay um I just couldn't handle I handle it anymore I quit had no uh cash flow or nothing like that I I just didn't want to do it anymore which is stupid and uh then I basically just had to make my way with freelancing and other stuff and that resulted in what I have today with HMC business I'd like to\nask you what did you do or how did you go from being on the couch not wanting to get up and grab the remote which is a few meters in front of you to getting back into working just to give you a clearer picture uh up until that point I that that was the most productive time of my life that the prior two years I was like working literally like not not uh exaggerating here like every every 3 minute like uh when I had a call and had\nlike five minutes spare I answered like two emils or did whatever like Bam Bam Bam from you know I I think every entrepreneur knows that face um but it was like over 2 years nonstop and a lot of things I went wrong all the time cuz I was super inexperienced and um then just imagine Corona like you don't have to work your startup dies bam full break from 120 uh Kil miles per hour to zero and you suddenly question everything like what did I do right\nespecially because I had a impact thought so I was like really impact driven at that time as well and then I suddenly had nothing like my purpose was gone and you know I just was so stressed um I even lost a little bit of hair which is crazy because I have way too much right so um it's it really was um that that was basically how it came to that and after a month I just had to start to work again CU I had a new job right so I\nof course it it wasn't at that stage where I was like okay I have to go to work but I can't even show up right so it wasn't at that stage um so I was still able to if I have to show up somewhere uh I was showing up um but that was all I uh you know you know and and that basically got me back right because out of purpose or like an empty life is pushing through right like with Sport with with work with something to do that's I think always the solution um\nyou just need something that pushes you\nyeah I agree a body in motion stays in motion right a body at rest stays at rest and I think that to that point that supports that but now that you've gone through that and you look back for listeners today like do you have any advice on how to balance time so that they don't fall into the situation that you perhaps fell into back then it's it's part of the usual entrepreneurs journey I think or anyone who wants to to do something special because in in\nthe end I love the saying from Jan Peterson not sure if you're familiar with him where he says like you need to figure out your what what you're capable of like how hard can you work right then once you figure out like how hard you can work then back down a little bit that's kind of um just don't overdo it I I really forced myself for two years um even though I knew my my limits I just disregarded them I just said it let's do it anyway I have to and that\nmade me of course like I had no resilience anymore because every tiny thing that was unexpected made me overwhelmed and that's you know you're just reacting to that's the worst position to be in just avoid that managing time is it's something important to learn you know like yes give it your all as you said like you're really striving to achieve your goals give it everything you have but also identify when there's those\ntimes that you do maybe need to take a break and recharge otherwise you will have that burnout and then something else I wanted to dive into was you know you've done bodybuilding and calisthetics training throughout your life like has anything from those workouts helped you within business and do you mind explaining that a little bit\nin general sport always helps right it uh gives you something to channel your negativity your pressure your all these things and it's also proven right from a from a health and a well-being perspective that it makes you more productive active even though when I do any kind of sport if you are active you still despite spending time on it get much more done on that day um because you're just more focused more driven more clear in your mind what matters\nyeah I agree with you there right I think even though you're taking that whatever it might be 20 minutes to an hour to actually work out if you know longer for some people I think that um there is that extra sense of clarity I think the focus increases and you're able to spend more time in the flow of work to really get into what you're doing quicker than if you had sort of brain fog because you didn't take that time to work out so yeah that mindbody\nconnection there is really important and you know it doesn't have to be a lot this day and age people think oh I got to get be in the gym for you know over an hour but if you're just moving 20 minutes a day or you're making sure that you're taking walk like it it varies for different people so I think people have to also understand that do what you can way you can but it definitely does help with you know the trajectory and what\nyou're uh moving into so you know you spoke about channeling negativity right and that's within working out are there any other mental mindset tips that you might have for the listeners today to continue moving forward in whatever it might be that they're doing I I'm not\nsure if I'm in the position to to give people tips or recommendation on on mindset because I I don't know if that's something that brought me to where I am today I'm not like crazy successful like some people are but I I would say Al there two it's two- sided right um for me for a long time all my goals were based on insecurity right uh because often times when you want to achieve something you want want to earn a certain number uh Al get to certain\nnumber of valve you want to get a sixpack you want to to XYZ it's always because of some kind of pain insecurity whatever if you ask often enough right and once at some point in your life when you achieved couple of these goals whatever these are for you you lose that right you you're not driven by insecurity anymore that's something that I really struggled with in the last 3 years um because I'm a really simple guy I never was interested actually in\nearning money uh like just at some point when that was my insecurity like okay why are these people earning more than me at some point it comes to trying to challenge yourself and just making yourself feel good and I discovered for myself and I like the the approach from Alex hosi here a little bit where he says hard work is the goal and it took me some some time to truly understand that but if you just work hard the productive days are the best days those\nare the cool days where you feel like okay it was exhausting but it was the good way of exhausting right it was like yeah I want to have every day like that and you know that's the goal right you you want to have a cool life and everything else the outcome and that also like if you look at it all the super successful people say the person that loves walking walks further than the person that just you know wants to get there or something like that so\nthere are tons of people that say a very similar thing and it's it's in the end that stupid saying it's about the process which means working hard feeling good enjoying somewhat yourself I go there a lot of that happens all the",
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