Episode 7 - The Future of WEB with Kevin Riedl

Chapter 01

0:03 foreign [Music] Technologies the intention of this is to educate people to increase understanding and wider adoption of this technology so here we discussed the current state of web3 and how different Personnel you

0:43 know like be a Founder investor developer marketeer designer Community manager are impacting the space through their product or service hello and say good morning good afternoon good evening depending upon which part of the world you’re joining in from I am Alek the host of this uh show and I’m the founder of animal solution which is a web free services company we help companies transition from web to web 3 pretty easily and we

1:11 do a lot of things in blockchain and metaverses so you can check our website for it now so coming back to this show we today you know like about the guest we have someone who has been coding like really really well since the age of 13. and he is somebody who now runs a company called Wayback dot IO based uh out of Austria which is uh which specializes in smart contracts and you know dapps that’s decentralization applications

1:45 so he’s also an advisor speaker he does workshops on blockchain and he speaks German and English pretty fluently and there’s a whole lot of other things so without further Ado let’s go ahead and welcome Kevin right now hi Kevin hi hey thanks for the invitation hi thanks everyone for watching uh really looking forward to that discussion and thank you thank you so much you know Kevin for coming in I know you’re busy and you know you’re scaling up your

2:16 organization really well so thank you so much for bringing in and uh you know coming in and taking out some time likewise cool Elijah so uh you know as is customary uh you know we usually start with a question which uh you know we would ask you like what is it that gets you started every morning what is it that gets you up every morning I love that question um yeah basically that’s something that I think a lot about and my answer changes are changed

2:47 over time all over again um but right now it’s mostly about giving something back you know um which means I don’t just want to scale my company to grow to earn a lot of money which is great yeah don’t get me wrong um that’s why we are company but in the end you actually want to look back in life and think well I did some pretty cool stuff that impacted people that you know did something with them you know yeah interesting very nicely important

3:27 you know and that’s something which resonates with me oh same thing resonates with me yes you know I have uh big Ambitions uh and I want to you know like grow and make a successful company which has a lot of money which is actually uh funding my social initiatives so that’s one of the key reasons why I started this company yes apart from being independent you know being your own boss and uh trying to you know plug the challenges

3:55 uh which I see you know and fill those gaps but the other other main driving force for me is build a company build a growth engine which can uh fill in my social initiatives right uh so I mean that’s what gets me up every morning love it I’m just out of cursity um you know I know you have your schedule for that um but no no uh what are your social initiatives just um yeah you know okay cool so see one is uh you know uh there

4:30 are two three primarily one I have is around food distribution so like you know I come from India and there are a lot of uh challenges like you know there’s a different types of people who cannot have uh you know say three meals a day so what I try and do is you know try and organize certain uh food initiatives so we we’re either from my pocket or collectively we go ahead and you know distribute food I want to make it a regular Affair which

4:58 has its own sales engine as well so I’m

Chapter 02

5:00 working on the project but you know like handling multiple things so that’s one initiative uh second is around disability so like even yesterday you know whenever you have uh there’s a lot of disabled people you know like again being India being a big country so there’s uh the number is a little higher Maybe so what we do is we give them you know a prosthetic uh process some arm or leg or uh calipers so there are support so even

5:29 yesterday you know like I gave a couple of calipers to somebody who is a paralytic patient so you cannot stand on his feet all right so it was my mother’s idea rather for yesterday but yeah so we went there so that’s second the third is around education my motive of starting this podcast and uh you know uh lot of other initiatives that I do I go to colleges talk about this is uh around education once the education is taken

5:57 care of you know most of the other things are taken care of so these are my three driving social initiatives but obviously you know can’t focus them full time because you have to run a company business whatever so this becomes my Revenue generating in uh you know like model the business and the other becomes more like you know social I love it hey that’s that’s super cool ah thank you I sounded like you know it’s the other way around you know like

6:25 I’m the guest on your podcast it’s fine you know it’s a discussion you know I yeah for an interview I want to yeah yeah you know yeah yeah absolutely you know thank you so much and absolutely he’s the first one who’s asked me that no one has asked me that before cool so thank you again cool so that’s about me so let’s get to know you a little bit now so something you know like which is not there in the public domain like this nobody knows

6:52 these are very very few people know about my initiatives what is something about you then uh well I I we are all about education too right if you looked at my LinkedIn and see the things that we do um you know for example we try to do around two to five podcasts per week um with that’s really a lot of effort we might scale a little bit down uh to focus a little bit more in other things but um in general what most people don’t

7:30 really know is we actually want to bring that to the next level I don’t want to exactly say already how that might look like but what I can say is we already did it and um yeah we basically just want to scale it which is we want to educate a certain Target group let’s put it that way yeah yeah interesting if you would ask me in two months I could give you a better answer sure so okay so I take that as a point to you know get in touch again on a live

8:12 in two months right obviously we’ll keep chatting you know on different platforms but yes let’s Tell The World what you do it’s not really satisfying answer sorry for that but no no that’s fine it’s absolutely you know like you are you know like it’s an open platform you can share what you feel comfortable at this point in time and then we’ll you know it it leaves a hook that’s the way I see it for future discussions all right

8:37 interesting so so that’s one Journey from education right but why do you why did you leave you know your development background here so for what I’ve understood you know you doing a good career enjoying that space from development being a developer to web3 may not be a massive shift for you being a developer but why is why I want to know um well I was always too on to bleeding edge Technologies um I had a long time where I tried just

9:08 everything you know which has advantages and many disadvantages um but at some point I got approached for a blockchain startup and joined that at some point and really you know if you really try to understand why does blockchain exist what kind of use cases like real use cases can stand behind that then you recognize that’s something that’s definitely here to stay and you know it has a strong strong bleeding edge wipe and

9:45 um I really just enjoy it people are much more open it’s fun it’s uh not corporate like not that much yet at least and yeah it’s just a fun space to be in and to grow

Chapter 03

10:03 interesting so what fun have you had so far with it let’s put it that way well I think everyone who is almost people that wearing crypto had some kind of traits that were a little went a little bit more unexpected uh yeah let’s say both directions probably and yeah yet just being in communities um yeah interacting with others and the spirit you know that sick work ethic that people put in everything is so incredibly fast-paced I’m in constant

10:43 form or even now in the bear Market even more actually because people build useful things and yeah that’s basically yeah it’s interesting you bringing out fomo here because every day you know there’s a new uh group forming which talks which has you know Founders developers investors Community managers primarily yeah um in different groups and they’re all building amazing products at least from the looks of it it seems

11:20 everybody’s building such nice products you know so what would you do more to stand out you know um I think the most important uh thing in the whole crypto space and we are getting better now at that other considering this space as a whole is requirements engineering and validating use cases right um there’s so many sorry for the word I use cases out there and uh or let’s say products that nobody wants or needs and usually it’s super easy to validate a

12:00 product before actually building it but instead people want to raise money uh start building and I think the largest reason for that is that many people that enter the space are usually or let’s say tend to be not the most experienced ones and that’s probably the reason why they do all these startup a first time founder mistakes and that’s somewhat uh let’s say shapes the space in a negative way but we’re getting better now and

12:36 that’s I would say yeah yeah so I think you know so if you take from the business angle so if you know say the developers or the company Founders were going through a fomo of making something and putting it out there without actually validating use cases I think it was the same with the investors as well because it’s a new industry not many people knew about you know how it’s going to turn out so anybody who had a decent understanding of technology and

13:03 some money started investing left right and Center right and that’s why you know and when somebody loses money eventually you know it’s it’s a world which is run on money so when somebody loses money it is bound to associate and attract negative press no uh through that um from an investor Investor’s perspective I don’t consider that that negative I would say because usually when you’re investor are you investing let’s say 100 or 10

13:35 startups and one maybe go somewhere and for sure you also put some decent amount of money new technologies such as blockchain yeah and yeah I think and it’s easy to get exit liquidity in blockchains so yeah yeah cool no it’s interesting you know so how it works so so let’s come back you know to understand so how is what you’re building under wave act you know like smart contracts why is it something that you choose you

14:10 know like development could be anything you could build D5 apps or dabs but why smart contracts well uh we have a big collection of different uh clients basically from protocols such as a social endorsement protocol called quiver a layer 2 optimistic call up called Bova to uh Dao’s nft collections uh even security tokens uh and doing courses with uh let’s say organizations such as such as inevitable uh if you know him Thiago oh yeah yes

14:53 awesome yeah so basically we are already quite Broad in that specific domain

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15:01 and um yeah asset crypto blockchain is just an awesome space to be in smart contracts are always exciting deploying on mainnet meaning that you need to actually do some good requirements engineering some a lot of tests like good test driven development where you know the smart contract behaves in a way that you expect him to yeah expect it to and um yeah you basically need to focus a lot more on performance security and

15:37 quality code and that what makes the space or smart contracts itself for me so exciting that you don’t have this Friday afternoon deployments as some companies do and um yeah that always got me a little bit angry you know with that it’s a bad project management and deadlines and everything and blockchain your Force to to some extent to create better code and to do all that stuff in a better way yeah because there’s no turning back there’s no

16:09 turning back once it’s on the main net it’s on the main net you can’t do anything about it yeah right oh it’s actually interesting no but it’s funny you know like ethereum was launched in 2014 right so smart contracts were introduced on ethereum if they were not there on the initial Bitcoin blockchain so so when you decided to go ahead and pull into smart contracts and even till you say two or three years ago in 2018 late 2018 somewhere around 2019

16:36 it smart contract was not something that was you know in a general public discussion at least even in the battery industry so how did you know that taking this route of blockchain like you know did you see any tell ill signs were there on ethereum that smart contracts would blow up to a level where you know they would have a massive utility well one just needs to think about blockchain itself right um for sure blockchain enables you to

17:07 transfer value in hopefully some kind of trust for uh trust as well a way and um smart contracts now enable you to set up some custom rules for value or for transactions in general um for actions basically that you want to save or let’s say have somewhere in your applications and for me it was somewhat uh of a it’s a no-brainer actually but I have to be honest I didn’t jump in uh with my company all in at that time I did a lot

17:43 um but you know as a business person you always observe you know where does it go is there enough demand for things and then you adapt you know try adapt try adapt fail yeah we try yeah yeah absolutely and I think the good part with you like you know mentioned was there were customers reaching out to you so you did not really have to have a full scale sales engine to go out and tell people what you do right yeah so that was I think

18:13 you know kind of beneficial for you when you were starting off um while I didn’t have that in the beginning actually um it was more out of necessary necessity um to build that inbound engine we do a tiny tiny tiny tiny bit of outbound already we have somewhere that supports us here but um in general everything is inbound through branding uh giving value all over the place um yeah and yeah right now we are let’s say more than enough you know

18:53 yeah it’s good so you are bootstrapped right you’re not funded fully bootstrapped yeah uh same you know so we awesome started you know so like bootstrap going in so ours also we also don’t have an outbound sales engine like I am from a design and a technology background so I did not really understand you know like that sales I’m it’s an important piece and in the beginning you can’t have a you know like a a player sales guy

19:22 right can’t help so the only interaction is you talk to people they talk to people then you get some opportunities you talk to them and you know I think it’s a similar way how both of us are kind of doing right now yeah 100 people buy from other people that they like and then trust and if you fulfill these two you want absolutely absolutely and you know if you have some testimonials to go with it they’re definitely very helpful yeah

19:53 crypto oh yes you know when trusting and it’s

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20:00 very important right so it’s been uh so couple of years of years running the company now so how’s the journey been like say from the point of when you got to know about web3 there is something called as web3 to now how is the journey be let’s understand you know from a Founder’s perspective I I think you can oh I’m sure you can relate but um I would say saying or stating it’s it was our roller coaster is uh not really an exaggeration

20:35 but it’s actually one percent the case and true yeah um from almost running out of money standing there uh transferring money between my Banks like bank accounts so that I can cover all my expenses to uh wow what’s going up going on now and just setting up you know systems processes uh starting from simple things like tax Insurance things like that to building a team building a cool culture where people have some vision and motivation

21:13 to do some cool and amazing stuff and stuff to um evaluating what does actually work getting customers to you know doing what I do on social media with uh podcasts multiple posts per day shorts and everything and basically yeah up a lot of ups and downs many projects that failed a lot of failed projects and yeah let’s see what happens with the next one oh yeah it’s it’s actually interesting

21:55 you know I can totally see when you were saying all of that I can totally see you know like you’re just a little ahead you know when starting the journey right you started two years ago I started about 10 months ago thank you yeah yeah deep dive you know like into this uh in March of this year right it’s a process yeah absolutely and yeah in the end there are no not that many actual experts in the space so it’s that it’s that’s the awesome part

22:33 about it you know you can enter and you quickly are able to provide serious value you know and I think that’s the best part it’s super inclusive and um yeah just love it oh it’s absolutely absolutely and you know and thank you you know for sharing all that candidly like you know which is uh amazing so so what are you building under wave act so let’s you know try and understand what are you building with three so now you’ve made that transition you are here

23:06 and you know you have these experiences so what are you building for the world yes let’s just know that um well right now we are mostly just like you a web free software agency working with other companies are building their products actually um as mentioned before from protocols nfts uh token styles to uh even architecture stuff like clear tools um but in the end we want to become a product business and that product has

23:45 to provide some kind of impact that was the education project I was talking about earlier and it’s not just one of those 100 of web free educational platforms there’s so many yes I also don’t want to be one of those uh let’s say Founders that say we’re building the first ever something because there’s if it’s actually a good idea someone already did it but um I haven’t seen it yet so let’s see and um there are feedback was awesome

24:21 basically as said teaching but a tiny group of a tiny Target group as mentioned and creating a course out of it that’s the main idea basically so the only secret now is the partners that we already have and um what kind of Target group that is so oh fantastic you know cool you know so I if I remember correctly I’m not sure if I can you know one of your posts was mentioning about you know like a small group of kids and you you know

24:55 taught them blockchain I saw you know the post and it was super awesome you

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25:00 know I I read their feedback you know which you had mentioned in a post on LinkedIn uh by the way you know uh viewers please go ahead and you know connect with Kevin on LinkedIn and you know he’s super I know he’s busy but you know he will always take out time if you have questions go ahead and ask him but be mindful of his time right you know like yeah that’s very important yeah um yeah so that was super awesome you know like having kids you know like 10

25:30 12 14 years old at that from the post because it’s a public domain I’m bringing it up right and then talking about and teaching them some things on the three it actually was crazy right um it was a one weeks course and um in the first let’s say in the morning I did a lot of Storytelling uh why does blockchain exist even talked about inflation and everything as camps and things like that you know kids got super excited uh their eyes are lit up you

26:03 know and I saw oh that’s going to be an interesting week and in the afternoon and uh next day we basically talked or let’s say looked how to actually build a smart contract how does it look like how does it work and the next three days they had time to build their own smart contracts and present it to their parents and some other people in a big hole and the crazy part is for sure with a lot of support you know it’s one week

26:39 but all of them either had the nft collection that worked and a security token with a liquidity added okay and um you know on testnet all good yeah obviously because the gas fees would have you know kind of you know yeah I would be more worried about uh regulatory uh legal aspects and um some even built lotteries one project or two projects even with adapt wow I didn’t even teach them that they did it themselves wow and yeah just

27:24 crazy you know um the lottery was completely self-taught those two or three projects I basically just taught them how to build the nft and token and the rest was their own imagination their own effort yeah you know it’s crazy because first for sure you would do an on-trained Lottery a different way with other colors and so on but um crazy that they understood blockchain the use case that well that a lottery is actually an amazing and

28:00 totally valid use case it’s a big use case because you know that there’s no fudging of funds there’s no you know like backtracking of numbers and I did not think of it you know like I’m running an agency and I could not think of Lottery as a use case for it yeah it’s uh it’s nothing that you can easily build as a company right um because a lot of legal aspects legal aspects needs to be there yeah yeah yeah don’t know it’s fun you know must have

28:29 been real fun I see you know out of that group you could have you know like future uh people joining you or uh you know you could be an advisor to them you know once they get to that legal age of having companies and stuff like that well they’re 10 to 15 year olds um I doubt that they were found a startup in the next few years but it must have been good experience teaching them 100 uh one was even that good one of the uh kits that developed a

29:05 lottery that really that incredible that I want to hire him until that my uh you know I didn’t think that fear until my think was that Tax Advisor or content told uh sent me an email with let’s say 10 exclamation marks a well uh way too young you know um what is called Live Lab labor basically um I I didn’t think of that you know that kid was so self-taught and knew what they want to build and do and I just thought I need that kit to work

29:43 with me but in the end you know I need to wait one more year oh yeah till the time he reached that legal age so that you know there’s no and it’s actually very funny you know like the way I’m seeing it right now uh is that there are a lot of opportunities which these kids could

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30:01 hold on to right and if you see uh you know in sports a lot of kids join at a you know much younger age than 18 like in India it’s legal age to work is 18. uh so they joined much earlier they become you know super good at what they do and they’d make tons of money because you know when you play a professional game you get money somehow why is that not allowed uh you know in a in a regular business you know like a regular agency or business or

30:29 work like it’s if it’s allowed in sports obviously you’re representing a country then you know it’s a bigger Stakes that you know bigger things at stake but that’s a question I’ve not been able to answer wow um I think it’s totally understandable right I’m as a founder or internal uh let’s say a boss or like in best case a leader you know um you have a lot of power you know and kids under a certain age in austrates below

31:03 15 um and that kid was 14. they don’t you know even after that age and even adults oftentimes have an issue with standing up for themselves and yeah um I think it’s mostly because of that you know and possibly agree you know like it is to prevent them from exploitation and you know like all those things but if you have the skill available I don’t know like you know some some systems should come into the place maybe which benefits everybody

31:35 um yeah 100 um that there are some raised at least in Austria uh for a summer job or something like that so yeah I think interesting depends where you are oh absolutely cool so so from being a you know like a company which deals in smart contracts like smart contracts are big now like they’ve scaled up any anything that you want to do especially in nft cases is on Smart contracts and now even metaverses because when you have Financial

32:07 transactions if I want to sell something in a metaphors I’ll have a smartphone so how would you view projects from that you know like say maybe an nft project and a metaverse project how would you differentiate which blockchain to use because the driving language is different for ethereum it’s uh you know solidity for something it’s rust and uh and the likes so how do you differentiate or how do you approach it rather

32:33 that’s a great question um in China it depends on a lot of different factors uh starting with your use case you know how many transactions do you have to do and what kind of transactions you know if it’s a lottery you want that to be maximum uh trustless for example if it’s just a tiny transaction a microtransaction during a game or something maybe it’s not that important and because it’s a lot there are a lot more transactions

33:04 gas fees become more significant and more important and secondly the target group itself right um on ethereum that’s most volume most money that’s the reason why most nft Collections and thousands on uh launched there because it’s easier to raise funds and ecosystem is larger and people don’t have that ux issue to bridge their funds to a layer 2 side chain like a polygon or something like that so uh for my ux and volume like how

33:39 much funds are there perspective most people still go and will continue to go for if you’re sorry for ethereum um also because ethereum is still no matter if you have optimistic or now validity develops coming up um still the most trustless smart contract platform out there even though with proof of stake now and having that censorship debate uh with the validators and everything we’ve turned out of cash right now yeah from a relative point of

34:14 view I would still say in relationship in relation to the amount of funds like the attractiveness to censor it versus uh actually being censored or centralized it’s on a good start you know we just need to get past that from if you’re let’s say Target group is the more novel or newer user less experienced you definitely want to go for a layer two with some kind of Fiat on-ramp where you get directly your funds from a credit card to your wallet

34:50 so no bridging nothing like that because for them it isn’t the difference you know from if you’re from two layer 2

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35:00 because they usually don’t have funds on ethereum so it doesn’t matter to them um it’s everything is new anyway yeah yeah they would want to you know pay less for transaction you know like less gas fees and stuff like that faster transactions yeah just try to understand your your mother uh that you just paid 100 for Signal transaction so what yeah that would be yeah I know I know you know there was a joke you know like

35:31 I’m not exactly getting the number say for a two dollar transaction somebody had to pay 200 for you know as gas fees at the point you know in time when before when it was on proof of work and not on POS yeah right so yeah yeah it’s it’s interesting and how do you differentiate like you know let’s take this a little forward so I’ve built a project on say ethereum now right right and uh we are doing POS and everything is in place

35:58 now I want to transition it to uh say another blockchain right I see that after building it up after you know like before or maybe you know after putting it on mainnet yeah you know let’s and now I see from a business use case it’s not as beneficial to me as I was as it was on the papers you know while I was building it right right so is there a way or how would you you know like transition it say from one blockchain to the other could be

36:31 from L1 to L to L2 to L1 vice versa um well I would start from the business Angel as well um to you what’s the let’s say value that you want to create with that is it just to be on different blockchains then it’s actually not that difficult right you just deploy your smart contracts there and uh depending on what kind of features you need uh it shouldn’t be an issue usually the problem arises when you want to have some kind of interaction between those

37:10 two protocols or directly breaching uh I don’t know nfts or tokens or whatever then it gets more complex right um there are a lot of bridges out there but oftentimes um you might need something more custom because you just want to send some kind of a message to the other chain and drag there somewhat in some kind of manner so there are ways for example layer 0 and uh protocols like that I think you’re familiar with it anyway but

37:45 in the end everything that you know a blockchain wasn’t made to interact with other blockchains that’s why we see all these Bridge hacks all the time we’re just coming in yeah so if you don’t need it and you just think it’s cool avoid it because you can destroy your business um because all these Technologies layer 0 and Co uh they don’t even exist for a year most of the time like layer 0 specifically now even though they are

38:19 amazing I love layers they were but um yeah it should be here for at least five years with billions of funds are secured and at least fixed security issues if there were some um yeah oh yeah absolutely and because you know so you see most of the new projects which are coming in are mostly and mostly driven on L2 like the build on L2 easier gas fees you know like some less gas fees easier to build easier to transact and bridges on L2 would Mark

38:53 you know would work primarily more efficiently supposedly you know so that’s that’s a way of doing it I think one of the other challenges you know like you brought up smart contracts and nfts is uh burning of nfts for example you know so now I’m getting a human angle error so I want to maintain nft right and then it’s about a 10 10 piece nfts you know 10 pieces right instead of say one group one I put in group two right which is

39:23 totally different I was not supposed to Mint that it’s a human error you know I because at the end nfts are what images before they actually become utilities right so instead of a I put in b now it is there it’s on the main addition there is no way to burn it I like right now the way of burning it through an interfaces to put it on our address which is not being used something like that right so have you come up with such

39:48 a problem or has somebody come up to you with such a problem and you found a you know like a solution for this uh so just from my understanding your problem or your let’s say

Chapter 09

40:00 business case or perspective now is if someone mints an nft by accident because one Implement that uh the constraints not the right manner but you already deployed it and communities on there yes well it’s a smart contract right if you didn’t add a rule that you’re able to burn it directly because you can if you add a function for that for example or have some kind of other functionality such as a word AP Art Club they have

40:35 some kind of function where you can I think delete the image for example from that stolen nft and mint a new one or something like that so that could be that they froze that functionality because there was some thought this year but um in China where a smart contract is a set of rules enforced by the blockchain if you didn’t add the rule that you can burn as a project owner then you can’t if and that’s a powerful thing right I’m giving

41:10 ownership power to the user that’s what um the original idea of blockchain was and um well if a larger cooperation possibly they have that let’s say urgency to have more control anyway then you probably will add these kind of rules to your smart contract and then you are able to do these things so yeah absolutely and you know so that’s a challenge what you know especially because when you have human interaction you cannot have one cannot have

41:46 everything automated so you have human interaction so instead of image one it’s a very very basic thing you know but in in a real scenario it’s like you know you’re doing a post right or I’m doing a post and instead of you know with the content I put in a wrong image and I want to edit it so even you know I can’t do that so that’s that’s a very small part of big challenge for people and it could be you know uh on a wearable side or a rare

42:13 side you know which is which takes about 40 50 just for minting it easily so it’s an interesting uh problem I think you know to solve cool all right so how how do you think you know like in your experience now now you Running Company you have people coming out to you how do you see the view of web3 changing in people’s perception earlier it was all crypto was very negative scams Rock pools wash trading you know like these are fancy words but these

42:44 were happening and now you know like in this beer sort of beer time right now um well it changes all the time um what I see is what we have all seen that hype around nfts it’s still there at some point you know it got way less but it’s still there and um we just saw a lot of non-technical people flowing into the space which is awesome from artists to marketers golf marketers all kinds of people a lot more business people that’s great so I think

43:24 our perception is definitely improving and what I also can see and that’s super that excites me a little bit um I’m invested and working with other in uh traditional Finance startup as well that’s um okay where we build the product in the past and we had organized a conference in Frankfurt uh two days ago I got back yesterday and there were a lot of you know let’s say super experienced and you know from Bankers you know

44:05 all kinds of people I think you can imagine and uh I was probably one of the youngest there if not the youngest and the thing that excited me was there was one distributed Ledger talk from the legal point of view and the people that I talked with they were pitching blockchain to me you know traditional Finance people that actually know how stuff works and yeah they say to me hey D5 World disrupt the four the whole traditional Finance

44:43 industry they are convinced you know two years ago it was a complete all the way around nobody believed you everyone thought it just came as Camp yeah and now they are coming to me and say that’s the future [Laughter]

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45:02 it must have been very interesting you know on that side listening and people coming in you know without sharing what you do but listening you know how people are it’s it’s in fact you know yesterday somebody from polygon shared a video uh where somebody from a big banking corporation you know like a credit card company is explaining how their credit card it’s one of the top most in the world you know can help you do transactions

45:30 like nfts you know trust it was amazing I love it so which means you know like the big guys are kind of waking up to it they’re investing obviously we all know you know all big people are investing heavily into it so I think that’s a good sign to come yeah 100 uh a lot of things are going on right now it’s I said a lot of fomo uh on my on my end at least I yeah no it’s it’s actually very interesting a cool Kevin you know so I

46:02 think we’re coming up right at the top of the or I just have a couple of you know Ender questions or are the things I want to see from your perspective say uh what’s your outlook on web 3 growth sitting today you know like in whatever the market conditions are and you know the external environment is what is your outlook say it’s positive negative neutral one word out of the three positive otherwise I wouldn’t be in there

46:29 it’s pretty fantastic and I have yet to find somebody who says it’s negative you know people are saying neutral or mostly positive I am yet to find somebody who says it negative so that’s that’s you know like a good sign to come right sure and uh thank you and uh one or two critical advices for people uh you know getting into web 3 space right now like primarily students or you know beginners fresh out of college mm-hmm

47:04 um well I’m a big fan of um let’s say know your why that’s from Simon sinek if I yeah I recall correctly um now why you want to enter web freezer just to earn a lot of money but money as main driver and only driver is a bad approach that doesn’t work long term you should have to have other things on top of your mind and secondly if your software developer and want to enter make sure that you are able to develop web 2 software have some experience

47:42 there some people might disagree with me now but um I think a lot of patterns that worked and still work really really well in web 2 need to be applied to web free and really helped us as an agency to do to deliver quality work you know many devs don’t even have the ability or know how to do proper requirements engineering testual development and these are the core pillars or core foundations to build good web free software and

48:18 yeah oh absolutely I’ll agree with that last point you know like Dash driven development because here you know the thing is because the wave blockchain is structured once you put it on Main net there’s no going back it’s not a code that you could refine and you know redo right so your uh initial construction of the whole code and you know how you’re presenting it the use case whether it works or not needs to be spot on

48:43 yeah uh at least you can’t change much right there are parameters uh proxy contracts you can just upload a new version uniswap file two for free um but in the end as you mentioned once deployed forever there full responsibility accountability for everything that happens on there so yeah that’s absolutely centralization yeah so that’s that’s a good note to end on you know that’s decentralization I love the way you said it thank you so

49:14 much Kevin for coming in you know sharing this time with you this valuable knowledge thank you viewers for uh coming in I would want to wish everybody happy weekend as well thank you very much and we will see you next week thanks